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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2019.03.21 · t-compiler/wg-polonius · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/index.html">t-compiler/wg-polonius</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html">meeting 2019.03.21</a></h3>

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<a name="161390915"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161390915" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161390915">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1184">@WG-polonius</span> -- sync? I might be a bit afk for new few minutes though</p>



<a name="161390935"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161390935" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161390935">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, is this time still .. good? Should we change it?</p>



<a name="161390943"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161390943" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161390943">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, I won't be able to make next week :)</p>



<a name="161390947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161390947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161390947">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>ACK! It works OK for me!</p>



<a name="161390956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161390956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161390956">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>So you are working on running the benchmarks, I see</p>



<a name="161390969"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161390969" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161390969">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's see how I feel about it after DST changes etc though</p>



<a name="161391005"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391005" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391005">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I was wondering if you'd done anything with the liveness stuff</p>



<a name="161391033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391033">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>(that we did the call about last time)</p>



<a name="161391039"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391039" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391039">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>also, I guess I have to publish something, don't I?</p>



<a name="161391050"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391050" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391050">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>(a new version of polonius)</p>



<a name="161391062"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391062" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391062">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, it's incredibly slow going though because I keep running into problems like "I need a Linux VM" or "perf has the wrong permissions", etc; nothing I can't handle, but it just takes time.</p>



<a name="161391067"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391067" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391067">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, and accept my PR!</p>



<a name="161391101"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391101" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391101">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Then I can submit the rustc PR using the new hybrid Polonius, and start running benchmarks</p>



<a name="161391131"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391131" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391131">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I haven't looked at liveness yet, and I'm honestly not really sure where to start (sorry; I feel like I need a lot more hand-holding on this project than I usually do and had expected)</p>



<a name="161391178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391178">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh, no worries at all. That's why I'm asking. :)</p>



<a name="161391187"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391187" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391187">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let me try to assemble a "bullet list" of steps</p>



<a name="161391192"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391192" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391192">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a...graph, but it's hand-written and mostly in Swedish</p>



<a name="161391197"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391197" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391197">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Fortunately it's not yet cyclic</p>



<a name="161391203"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391203" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391203">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm trying to think where to put that list</p>



<a name="161391205"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391205" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391205">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>A graph?</p>



<a name="161391210"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391210" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391210">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Of steps you mean? :)</p>



<a name="161391216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391216">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, or rather "things to investigate"</p>



<a name="161391239"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391239" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391239">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not everything on it is actionable</p>



<a name="161391260"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391260" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391260">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK</p>



<a name="161391270"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391270" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391270">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>However I have read your blog post on kinds; I don't have a great idea for a solution, but I think I understood enough to know what to ask the optimisation/constraint people I know about it and see what they can shake down</p>



<a name="161391274"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391274" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391274">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am trying to get this stuff back in my head</p>



<a name="161391338"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391338" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391338">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am confused, sorry</p>



<a name="161391340"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391340" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391340">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>what are you talking about ? :)</p>



<a name="161391344"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391344" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391344">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>"kinds"?</p>



<a name="161391352"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391352" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391352">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's ok, we are talking about four different things at the same time</p>



<a name="161391388"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391388" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391388">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like we're working towards the goal of extending polonius to handle a wider range of errors. And, initially, working on having it do the liveness computation.</p>



<a name="161391446"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391446" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391446">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's just start there</p>



<a name="161391452"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391452" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391452">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Correction: I meant trait-matching, sorry, I'm still wrapping my head around the terminology</p>



<a name="161391515"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391515" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391515">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh, I see. I wouldn't worry about that. It's not really a polonius concern.</p>



<a name="161391533"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391533" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391533">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>(You mean the post about higher-ranked region constraints?)</p>



<a name="161391547"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391547" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391547">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean we can talk about it :) but I think ultimately it's more of a trait matching problem, and the tricky bits will be solved by layers atop polonius</p>



<a name="161391559"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391559" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391559">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, the hereditary harrop one (it <em>is</em> kind of fun to say)</p>



<a name="161391577"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391577" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391577">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Polonius itself (I believe) only needs to worry about the simple case of outlives relations</p>



<a name="161391588"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391588" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391588">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, so you pre-solve in Chalk or similar, and then hand the region logic parts to Polonius</p>



<a name="161391591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391591">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>more or less yes</p>



<a name="161391597"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391597" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391597">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is the plan I have in mind, at least</p>



<a name="161391606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391606">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've actually built some prototypes of this, but I haven't had time to make them really work</p>



<a name="161391671"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391671" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391671">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>not to say I'm not interested in hearing from people about good solutions :)</p>



<a name="161391674"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391674" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391674">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Makes sense, except that there might be some ingenious problem decomposition you could use to accelerate the solving, but I guess that's something to investigate once everything is working and there are benchmarks</p>



<a name="161391687"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391687" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391687">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="161391705"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391705" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391705">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the main point is that there are enough problems to solve</p>



<a name="161391715"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391715" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391715">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>without worrying about those region constraints :)</p>



<a name="161391721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391721">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>err yes</p>



<a name="161391750"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391750" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391750">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, so I will try to write up some step-by-step instructions on liveness</p>



<a name="161391758"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391758" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391758">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>in ~30 minutes :)</p>



<a name="161391776"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391776" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391776">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>also land your PR and publish :)</p>



<a name="161391779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391779">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm going to bed in ~90 minutes anyway so no rush :)</p>



<a name="161391915"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391915" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391915">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>you will continue messing with benchmarks, make the hybrid change (once polonius-engine is published), and hopefully pursue those mentoring instructions a bit</p>



<a name="161391918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391918">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds good?</p>



<a name="161391928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391928">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sounds good!</p>



<a name="161391936"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391936" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391936">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>w/r/t the benchmarks, we clearly need to pick a subset of interesting ones</p>



<a name="161391945"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391945" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391945">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, they take <em>ages</em></p>



<a name="161391946"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391946" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391946">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I guess getting the whole thing up and going is a good first step</p>



<a name="161391996"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161391996" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161391996">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm trying to thikn of what criteria to use :)</p>



<a name="161392008"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161392008" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161392008">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't thikn I'll have time to get that good thought this over next week but who knows</p>



<a name="161392011"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161392011" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161392011">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>ps next week i'm at a conference and likely can't make this time</p>



<a name="161392073"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161392073" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161392073">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>With any luck I've started to be reasonably independent on the liveness analysis</p>



<a name="161392075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161392075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161392075">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>cool, i'm gonna run then! I gotta take care of something "afk" here for a bit. i'll be back later and try to get those mentoring instructions up.</p>



<a name="161392084"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161392084" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161392084">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok, thanks!</p>



<a name="161392088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161392088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161392088">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>With any luck I've started to be reasonably independent on the liveness analysis</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, that's partly what I'm hoping :) I'll be around online anyway earlier in the week, though likely busy</p>



<a name="161392479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161392479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161392479">(Mar 21 2019 at 20:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah don't worry; I can probably find something in the benchmarking section to work on, or continue teaching myself Rust</p>



<a name="161396725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161396725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161396725">(Mar 21 2019 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204115">@Albin Stjerna</span> I created <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/polonius/issues/104" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/polonius/issues/104">polonius#104</a> and added some initial mentoring instructions in there</p>



<a name="161397071"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161397071" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Matthew Jasper <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161397071">(Mar 21 2019 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Since this hasn't been mentioned. I guess I'll just point out that this doesn't quite allow us to have parity with the facts we get from rustc. We also use initializedness to make drop liveness more accurate. This should still be good enough for now.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161397879" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161397879">(Mar 21 2019 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116118">@Matthew Jasper</span> yeah, good point, we'll work our way there though :)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161397883" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161397883">(Mar 21 2019 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I forgot about that though</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting%202019.03.21/near/161397917" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Matthew Jasper <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/meeting.202019.2E03.2E21.html#161397917">(Mar 21 2019 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Indeed, one thing at a time.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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